tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad
Mar 28, 2021, 01:08 AM 415 read

Suggestion: Adding another damage benchmark for WB.

FORUM

Hey guys,   Now that all ignition elements are out, I believe it's a good idea to add another damage benchmark for WB next time. Right now we have 10m and 15m as the upper benchmarks.   With ignition, hitting 15m benchmark has become remarkably doable. A 3* attacker unit like mech commander can carry your DPS provided you have some caps for WB units.   This might be a good time to implement a higher benchmark for another reward: ignition core materials. Having a higher benchmark is healthy for the game because:   1) You give more goals for players to strive towards. Some players for example once they reach 15m they no longer feel like they need to do more. This should be good for business and for player achievement purposes. 2) Ignition core materials are very hard to come by and many players feel bad for using crystals to make them. However, obtaining rewards is intrinsically, well, rewarding and having reached an even higher benchmark can be really gratifying. 3) It creates more incentive to obtain new powerful units. I think this is fairly obvious.   Now, I don't know what benchmark it could be. You guys have the data for how many players does a certain amount of damage (I assume) so you can create a higher benchmark for that. 20m? 25m? 30m? Entirely dependent on your data.   Thoughts?

Comment 38

  • Jimmiee LV.11 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 01:50 PM

    Alright, the answer is simple.

    We play world boss for fun, for the easy rewards that we can be just chill to obtain.

    There are still tons of players out there for whatever the reasons who just joined the game but they are not competent for the you called benchmark rewards. 5 mil is okay, 10 mil is not impossible, 15 mil is doable. Devs know that.

    Please don't ignore all the threads in the community, who ask for the team comp help, who share the new record excitement, and who love to guide player how to min-max to build your own teams in return.

    We are not Elites. We player base always follows the normal distribution rule. Most players are sitting in the mid, still hustling for the current 5,10, 15 mil benchmark, believe it or not.

    Statistically, following the normal distribution rule, Top 100 and veterans are on the right tail(40mil+ per run), newbies are the left one(0-5mil per run), we sit in the mid(5-40mil + per run) to make the distribution symmetrical.

    Alright, if you say we set 20mil or even 25mil Elite bs milestones? Guess what ? Distribution gets skewed.

    New player gets discouraged, they gradually give up and say farewells to the game. Some normal players would see a P2w trend, which leads them quitting. Elites would stay, but I bet they would not stay that long. Fewer players would appreciate their P2w power they bring to the game, which in turn discourage the Elites swiping theirs credit card for more power.

    Then there would be a tragedy for a typical gacha waifu game shutting down the server. Forcing higher criteria to make players P2w... You know how it goes. They all die for a reason, but none of the reason is irrelevant to the P2w forces.

    Please think about this widely and deeply, as a game Dev, as a revenue generation specialist, and the most importantly, as a normal player, who loves the Art, who loves the community, who loves the generosity.

    If we love, we would pay for the hardworks, gergous art, and waifus. There would be NO NEED to force us P2w the boring elite milestones.

    We love the Destiny Child.

    Best,

  • Jimmiee LV.11 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 02:16 PM

    TLDR;

    This is a forcing P2w sus. Don't do that. You might be a DC veteran/elite, I'm not. We would pay for that if we do so.

    Please think from the factors of the correlations between P2w strategy, players base keep rate, new players acquisition rate, and rewards adjustments.

    Adding benchmark is not a one-way in game thinking, my brother.

    Best,

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 11:05 PM

    You raise some interesting points, but I think you're unaware of what DC already is.

    Let's break it down:
    1. Ignition. Ignition is the biggest power creep the game has introduced. It is by far the biggest "P2W" system DC ever released. This system alone should be kicking all new players away by your logic (and no, you don't need to ignite a single 5* unit to reach, say, a 20m benchmark).

    2. Top 100 PVP, WB, and Ragna/Slayer break is way more end game than a new benchmark in WB. Adding a newer benchmark shouldn't pressure people to leave, but reach a middle ground between the end-game, the mid game, and starting out.

    Think of it like this, the game already have an achievement system where the end is reaching high placing in top 100 game modes. A newer benchmark is a stepping stone to eventually get there. Take a look at Top 100 slayer ranking for example. You have to farm for 14 days doing maximum damage to a boss just to get a 5* summoning ticket. This has been around for as long as I joined the game, which is last year, which is a way more ridiculous benchmark than this suggestion I'm making.

    Essentially, this new benchmark isn't as bad as you think it is, because we already have plenty of end game rewards that are far beyond what the average players can reach. However, a game has to have stepping stone goals for people to achieve, and WB can definitely have an additional goal to aim between top 100 and say, top 10%.

    While I'm all about maintaining a balance between p2w and f2p, this benchmark will not be the thing that push new and existing players away. It shouldn't even add to it, it is a bridge between top 100/1% folks and the mid-game/late game folks.

  • Loffy LV.7 Nomad Mar 29, 2021, 09:09 PM

    "and no, you don't need to ignite a single 5* unit to reach, say, a 20m benchmark"
    yeah, if you have been playing since release.. I have been playing for about a year now every day all the tasks and my wb meta team is somewhere between +2-+5 besides few exceptions and I'm just now starting to hit past 15mil regualrly

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 30, 2021, 08:24 AM

    Igniting 3* mech commander would do the job. This is what I was referring to.

  • Gatsu86 LV.23 Champion Mar 28, 2021, 05:28 PM

    @Jimmiee WBs is the end game content in DC, if you play for fun what that extra reward change for you?

    Just because new players don’t have lot of childs maxed yet, doesn’t mean Devs need to keep the difficulty low for all players.

    Btw I have seen lot of F2p players deal 20/30 millions on each WBs, so if they add an extra level of 20/25 millions with Core materials or Cores as rewards, it will be a lot useful for you.

  • VladOSDGL LV.15 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 08:52 PM

    I can tell u what, i am playing daily with max efficiency for over a year and not F2P and i am FAR from doing 30 mill each WB and i am in top ~7% of players on dmg in WBs, so if u saying that more marks will help more than hurt for the most players u either dumb or lying.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 11:12 PM

    I started last year as well, spent about 90 dollars total, and I'm doing 60-70m for the last 2 wbs. I have no idea what you think max efficiency is, but I don't think you know exactly what you're doing in this game if you said you're struggling with 30m and also isn't f2p.

    And I don't mean this as an insult, I think you should probably read the great guides that are made on Reddit and Discord to truly maximize your efficiency in this game.

  • VladOSDGL LV.15 Chief Mar 29, 2021, 07:33 AM

    spending all your resourses to ignite units and do well in WB is not max efficency , thats exactly what is NOT efficent so u doing it means absolutely nothing , and again no matter if its right or wrong fact that its still more than 90% can do speaks for itself

  • Gatsu86 LV.23 Champion Mar 30, 2021, 02:23 AM

    I reached 20/30 millions in 2 years of playing the game, even before the ignition come out...

    To do that your attackers must be maxed 60+6 and skill maxed, most of the team at lv 60 with good uncaps and skill level. Decent gear, with B+ grade (optional).
    Your team composition must have good synergy (skill stackable with each other) and a good ratio of attackers / supporters / debuffers / tank / healer. Great leader (if she/he will debuf eva the boss by 15%, that is the best), using the right Drive order and Skill order.

    Example: 3 attackers max, 1 healer, 0-1 tank, 7 supporters, 8-9 debuffers
    (my ratio for this WB: 31079)

    To achieve good results in WBs need a lot of childs near maxed, so is normal that it requires times and daily improvements.
    Luckily for you the main core of the team of each WBs will be the same, so less childs to min-max.

    For this reason I said that WBs is a end game content and even if you buy stuff you will need lot of time and resources, so take your time enjoy the game without rush it, see other team comp and scores to get better and you could reach the same results.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 30, 2021, 08:26 AM

    I never spoke about ignition here. I'm telling you are not playing nearly as efficient as you think you are. I've started after you and easily hit the 15m benchmark like 5-6 months into the game with very mild spending (around 20 bucks).

  • Jimmiee LV.11 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 02:11 AM

    Nope, period.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 05:37 AM

    8 downvotes, and not a single person stating why. Did you guys not read the rest of the post?

  • P. Argonaut LV.22 Insomniac Mar 28, 2021, 10:21 AM

    They're just mad they didn't think of this first 😉

  • VladOSDGL LV.15 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 08:46 PM

    Why? Cos power creep is bad? If u dont understand it urself nothing other can say will help you. More marks means more rewards but also means more unfair resourse distribution for new/ old player and also means Devs will create harder content wich will be more and more unreachable for the most (who dont reach those top tier rewards).
    Most PPl see DC as generous game and etc, but not many ppl understand that with amount of content DC have it will take YEARS w/o new content to fully max out all characters (uncups equipment options and ignition) we dont need more chalenges rn we need more free rewards especialy for f2p players.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 10:45 PM

    You're playing the wrong game if you think "powercreep is bad". Gacha games are inevitably all about power creep to give players incentives to roll for new events.

    Having the mentality that the game should be even more free just doesn't make sense at all. The fact that DC is already this generous is a great thing for f2p players. If you want a game to last long, a developer HAS to balance between f2p and spending, and the game is easily one of the most generous out there.

  • VladOSDGL LV.15 Chief Mar 29, 2021, 07:36 AM

    Ye and that mindset exactly why 99% of gatcha games "die" in less than a year , DC being illusinary generous (yes giving 2x times more than others is not rly generous when u request 1000x times more than others same time) that saves it if u take that illusion away not much will left of the game and i dont want it to happen.

  • TJ Li LV.19 Sage Mar 28, 2021, 01:22 PM

    That's a nice idea. I wish that they would add easier way to obtain core materials in Ranga and Maybe ramp up the rewards for PVP with core materials and have core materials available in pvp shop. It's already over 2 years the overall reward system needs an adjustment or at least look into it.

  • Gramamanamanees LV.18 Sage Mar 31, 2021, 08:50 PM

    this is my favorite response. I don't agree that introducing new goals to pve modes would discourage newer players (if that were the case 15m would be too high). they need to introduce goals with rewards that incentivize pushing damage *just* a bit more.

    20m? core materials. 25m? core boxes. Revamp ragna/wb shop so there is less fodder to grind through and offer core and option materials. Offering more endgame rewards for endgame damage adds goals to a game for long term players that feel like they've hit every goal for already.

    newer players can still push for the lower tiers, thinking 'next worldboss, 10m for sure!' I don't see how adding rewards for endgame players should affect newer players unless they feel like they deserve to hit 25m with less time or money invested than the people who can.

  • WhiteOtakU LV.2 Lurker Mar 28, 2021, 08:19 PM

    I've seen enough p2w "freemium" games die because the playerbase got sick of it. If you implement goals normal players could not reach they just leave. We Otaku just want to chill out and collect - I don't care about "competition" at all... 😎

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 10:49 PM

    I've seen this same idea being said, but I don't think you quite understand the direction DC is going or where it's currently at. On KR, then later JP, a mode called Endless PVP has been introduced which is even more late game than WB. You're made to collect and evolve 3 and 4*s and igniting them to stay in a competitive game mode.

    Then there's the current status quo. Top 100 pvp, WB, and Ragna are pretty much way more unattainable than a new WB benchmark. Someone said top 1% is doing 40m. This isn't true. We have to do 60-70m to stay in it unless you're refreshing 10 tickets a day. Top 100 WB players are easily doing 100m right now. Adding a reward on top of 15m basically makes a better bridge and a different goal to strive towards.

    Ignition alone made this game way more "competitive" than it already is. If you truly are the collector type and don't care about competition at all, why would you feel obligated to do ignition, and hence why would you feel left out when it has nothing to do with collection? Someone casual can easily play this game without worrying a thing about ignition.

  • Paul Green LV.19 Sage Mar 28, 2021, 03:07 AM

    Keep the original benchmarks and add on more. Add in rewards like core material or lucky core boxes, prism soul carta tickets, etc. for the higher levels or adjust the original rewards to ramp up appropriately

  • Gatsu86 LV.23 Champion Mar 28, 2021, 03:19 AM

    @Paul Green Isn't that the same thing he said? I thinks the same, if they add another level of achievement, on top of the other 3, will be awesome.

  • TJ Li LV.19 Sage Mar 29, 2021, 01:56 AM

    With the right child and ignition it's not that hard to reach 30 million or more in WB especially for veterans. it's really about what mode you prefer and where you use your resources. I know the key childs that I could ignite to increase the WB damage but I'm content with doing 20-30 million range but if there's is another benchmark then I would want to achieve that too. Besides the whales need additional rewards for giving the average players all the free blood gems.

  • Chris P Bacon LV.5 Lurker Mar 29, 2021, 04:45 AM

    I only have one character ignited because it is so hard to get cores for me. You need like 12 ATK cores just to properly ignite an attacker, and it took all my resources to do that for one character. It's a big struggle for me. I'm doing my hardest to min max my setup, making a chart of who has what equipment, and the best I can do is 9.5 million (without anybody ignited) for the Methusala world boss. I'm nowhere near the flying you guys are doing

  • Kharl LV.23 Wizard Mar 30, 2021, 12:22 AM

    You only need a good core to unlock the first node, the rest doesn't matter. You can use any trash cores to unlock the remaining 11 nodes.

  • Tasty Muffins LV.13 Chief Mar 28, 2021, 03:20 AM

    We will likely get what KR got which is really nice IMO.

    Max raid boss level is 30
    Ragna burst is a single player boss with like 10 times the health or something to get extra rewards. The ceiling is high enough where even the whales can’t one shot it but it’s nice to see really big numbers.

    Ragna burst is completely optional btw.

    I will try and post screenshots later

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 05:39 AM

    That's for ragna raid tho. Which I do like it from what I've seen. But man there's some triggerhappy downvoters today lol not sure why you got downvoted too

  • Tasty Muffins LV.13 Chief Mar 29, 2021, 12:50 AM

    Yes likely due to my blunder. I didn’t realize it was world boss. My bad guys. Still their Raid system is really nice. Fun for all types of players IMO.

  • OhNoBees LV.5 Lurker Mar 28, 2021, 11:08 AM

    Sounds like a good idea. As long as the reward doesn't alienate new players too much. As this game receives more childs and areas for advancement, I would assume that it already has a natural tendency to intimidate people just starting to play.

  • Loffy LV.7 Nomad Mar 29, 2021, 09:03 PM

    First of all those who don't have initiative to make teams stronger after hitting 15mil won't do it just because there is another milestone, they will keep roleplaying and igniting weak non meta units.
    Second, if they added cores it should be in middle because those who hit 30,50,200mil dmg don't really need more cores, those who are newer (especially f2p) struggle hitting the 15mil actually need them, so it's kind of stupid in that sense.. I've been playing for about a year now very actively as f2p and I'm just now breaking 20mil mark.
    So imo this would just widen the gap between players who play since release and new ppl coming to game

  • Zombie Dane LV.27 Team Rocket Mar 28, 2021, 05:52 AM

    the problem here is if you make the benchmarks to high new players will see it as impossible and might even drive them away.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Mar 28, 2021, 09:17 AM

    Kind of a really negative way to look at it. The 15m benchmark still takes months to get to. Stuff like top 100 PvP and top 100 Ragna are other things that is way harder than a new benchmark for WB.

  • Zombie Dane LV.27 Team Rocket Mar 30, 2021, 04:03 PM

    No not negative. Just try to put yourselfs in a new players shoes or even f2p players. If i couldn't reach the benchmarks being either a new player or a f2p player I would quite playing it.

  • tachiiderps LV.6 Nomad Apr 1, 2021, 01:06 AM

    I was in that shoe last year. Honestly new players have way more things to worry about than benchmarks lol - I didn't even know about WB benchmarks til I started going on Discord/Moot regularly to check DC events. Otherwise I never read the news ingame so wouldn't even know about it.

  • OhNoBees LV.5 Lurker Mar 29, 2021, 06:14 AM

    It doesn't necessarily have to be an astronomical reward. Could be something modest so that it doesn't affect players too heavily, or even just cosmetic so that it doesn't affect players at all

  • gamer393017116 LV.1 Mootie Apr 3, 2021, 07:57 AM

    copie and share:Have you guys checked out this amanzing
    BUFFS gameplay videp? I´ts mind blowing Watch the LIVE streaming here:https://7r6.com/Ntls

  • gamer924430538 LV.2 Lurker Apr 5, 2021, 12:50 PM
1
Home