CM_Heylel LV.21 GameManager
Oct 3, 2019, 09:16 AM 5,101 read

Dev Note #88: About Shard Farming After 3.7 Update

Dev Notes
HEIR OF LIGHT: Dev Notes - Dev Note #88: About Shard Farming After 3.7 Update image 1

Greetings Heirs,   Many Heirs have been discussing about Shard Farming after the Update. Today, I want to go over some comments regarding Shard Farming.   We went over feedbacks from the community to summarize the most popular feedbacks.   🔴Question: If I purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, will the guaranteed Shard Reward also double?   🔵Answer: Yes, it will. If you purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, the [Shard Reward] count will be doubled. For example, with Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, Heirs will receive 200 Shard Reward count instead of 100 Shard Reward count when Heirs clear 100 stages. Therefore, Heirs will receive 10 servant shards for stages that give shard reward for every 20 stages(Early stages of Fire/Water/Forest Sanctuary). Those who didn't purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack will receive 100 Shard Reward count for 100 stages cleared, receiving 5 servant shards.     🔴Question: It seems like the Shard drop for Light/Dark stages decreased significantly given that I play 550 stages. Sometimes, I end up obtaining 0 shards. Isn't this an error considering that I normally used to obtain 5 ~ 10 shards?   🔵Answer: No it is not an error. When we released the shard drop rate on August 2018, we stated that the shard drop rate of Light/Dark ★5 servants are 1.4%. The very last stages of Light / Dark Sanctuary give one shard reward for every 100 stages played. Therefore, the 1% of the servant shards are obtained through guaranteed shard reward while the remaining 0.4% of shards are obtained through drops.

HEIR OF LIGHT: Dev Notes - Dev Note #88: About Shard Farming After 3.7 Update image 3

Even before the 3.7 Update, we imagine that some days Heirs woke to see 2 ~ 4 shards even with the packages because 1.4% rate is indeed a very low rate. However, there must have been other days that Heirs wake up to see 26 ~ 28 shards obtained. (Our point is that the difference can be quite significant.)   What we did in 3.7 Update is to guarantee 11 shards if Heirs go through 550 stages. While Heirs will be guaranteed to receive 11 shards, Heirs now have lower chance of 0.4% to receive shard from drops. While this means that Heirs will obtain average of 4.4 shards (2.2 shards without Double Shard or All in One Package) every 550 stages, there can be cases where Heirs obtain no shard at all from drop because the drop rate is in fact very low. Of course, there can be opposite cases where Heirs obtain 8 shards (4 shards without Double Shard or All in One Package) because drop is purely based on percentage.   Ultimately, while the number of servant shard drop used to range from 4 ~ 26 servant shards before the update, it now ranges from 11 ~ 19 servant shards.     🔴Question: I thought we get guaranteed Shard Reward while maintaining the previous shard drop rate.   🔵Answer: In the previous Dev Note, we mentioned that   "One shard per 25 stages means that Heirs would receive 4 shards per 100 stages. The new drop rate from stage clear will become rate excluding the 4%(4 shard per 100 stages) from original shard drop rate."   "The total drop rate of shards will not be changed after the update. Based on the stages, Heirs will obtain 60~80% of the shards from the guaranteed reward while obtaining the rest from reward based on drop rate."     Long story short, the new drop rate excludes the guaranteed shard reward rate from original drop rate.   When we stated that "the total drop rate of shards will not be changed after the update," what we meant is that: Number of Shard obtained from drop before Update = Number of shard from guaranteed shard reward + number of shard from drop after update. We apologize about any confusion the statement caused,     🔴Feedback: Because of lower drop rate due to guaranteed reward, there are many cases where Heirs don't obtain any shard at all from the drop after 550 stages. Current status of Heir of Light feels very boring since it minimizes the "luck" aspect of gameplay.   🔵Answer:   We understand the happiness and excitement on days that Heirs obtain good number of shards. On the other hand, the drop rate could often work against Heirs, which often annoys Heirs to the point that makes Heirs want to quit the game. We believe that if Heirs fail to obtain even a single shard after 100 stages, the valuable time spent running 100 stages can easily feel wasted. We thought that we could give more value to each round that Heirs play if we add a system that guarantees servant shard.   Since "Rate" is involved in various aspects of Heir of Light, we could have involved more "Rate" to servant shard farming also. However, considering the characteristics of shard farming, we decided to put more weight toward guaranteed reward. Unlike Summoning that completely relies on rate, shard farming is more about consistently putting effort 5 ~ 10 days to collect all 500 shards. We concluded that servant shard farming should focus more on rewarding constant effort rather than rewarding Heirs based on luck.   While the shard farming could feel very boring at the moment because the 8 shards drop now turned into 0 shard drop, we hope that Heirs recognize the long term convenience from the change as it will become easier to plan ahead for shard farming with more consistent shard rewards.     Summarizing what we went over today:     1. Double Shard & All in One Package still double the number of shard obtained. 2. The total number of shard obtainable per stages has not changed. However, as we decreased the impact of drop rate, the minimum number of shards increased while the maximum number of shards decreased. 3. Since the drop rate became lower, Heirs could receive 0 Light/Dark shards by running 550 stages through drop.   We ran into various feedbacks regarding balance between guaranteed reward and drop reward. While we thought guaranteed reward should have greater presence based on characteristics of shard farming, we would like to listen to the community's opinion.  

Poll Closed 32 Voted

About Guaranteed & Drop Reward

  • Guaranteed Reward should have greater presence 14
  • Guaranteed & Drop reward should be similar 3
  • Drop Reward should have greater presence 15

    Please note that balance between guaranteed reward and drop reward is subject to change based on the result of the poll. We hope that Heirs think about the direction shard farming should take in the long run since the result of the poll can make a very important choice for Heir of Light. It would also help us greatly if Heirs could leave explanation of their choice in the comment below.   We promise to listen to the community as we move onward with Heir of Light.   Thank you.      

Comment 32

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 09:37 AM

    Here's a popular meme that summarizes how a lot of players feel about how you guys botched the shard farming system

  • MysticHLE LV.5 Lurker Oct 3, 2019, 10:22 AM

    I like the new system as is. I feel that most of the players complaining about rates don't actually understand the new system and the numbers and their implications even though you're very detailed about it. The initial reaction seems to be along the terms of "why did drop rates get nerfed?!" instead of actually focusing on the change and why.

    I would advise that any long term decision is made with metrics around engagement of shard farming activities (under this new system vs. old) instead of basing on a poll right now (the engagement of which may not be an accurate indication of the actual interest/desire around shard farming as a whole).

  • gamer526069070 LV.2 Lurker Oct 3, 2019, 10:59 AM

    My problem is that with this new update I no longer get ANY drop shards. 100s of runs. 0 dropped. I used to get 3 to 6 per 50 runs of fire 5* . now i get 2 shards per 50 and 0 dropped. 0. i have not seen 1.

    something is not working correctly and that is why people are pissed.

  • Tucha LV.2 Lurker Oct 4, 2019, 02:38 AM

    You need to collect the shards manually

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 12:10 PM

    The main issue is that instead of making shard farming slightly easier than before, the Dev team decided to rework it in such a way that players would be getting roughly the same amount of shards that they were getting prior to the update BUT ONLY when the player has an active shard pack (fun fact: with the newly implemented shard farming system, players who purchase the all-in-one pack can gather significantly more shards than those without). This is basically a scummy marketing strategy aimed to force those unreasonably priced booster packs down people's throats and is a sign that the game is leaning towards a "pay-to-win" direction. Prior to the update, they chose to use ambigouos language and mask their true intent by emphasizing on the promise of "guaranteed shard drops". Another fine example of scummy marketing tactics is the addition of misleading messaging (the use of the word "free" is the perfect bait eh?) in the rate+ banners.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 02:43 PM

    Shard drop rates are not affected in both ways, pack or no pack. The current seemingly lack of shards compared to previous is mostly due to the dissatisfaction of 0 shards dropped from a run of 60. If they integrated guaranteed shards into the drop table along with normal dropped shards, no one would complain. The act of collecting guaranteed shards from the battle menu is what ticks people off because it seems like a lame consolation prize. However if you do that math it all checks out. It was a matter of framing it that they got wrong and need to fix to prevent confusion for players.

    As for the rate+... assuming that it is not a translation error it is definitely a low blow. Should get that fixed in the future hopefully.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 02:57 PM

    Can you scroll up to Heylel's post and read the 1st Q&A? It's literally printed there, black & white:
    shard pack = faster shard farming
    faster shard farming > farming w/o shard pack

    In simple terms, this update was meant to do a hard sell on those packs.

    In the simplest analogy, think of those shard packs as dirty gym socks. What they're doing now is basically shoving those socks (yep, the whole pair and all) down every player's throat.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 03:03 PM

    ???? It is literally the same. Double shard pack = double shards. No shard pack = normal shards. The overall drop rate does not change. Look at the table lol

    I don't see any shoving of double shard pack anywhere... there are no added benefits compared to before.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 03:12 PM

    You're telling me that you trust a flimsy table more than firsthand experience from several different users who play at different times, play for different durations, yet are getting the exact same results? Those percentages are complete and utter BS that they just posted to justify the mistake of making shard farming even worse than before. Making up believable excuses are important to keep players from quitting ya know

    Also, if you don't see any added benefit of using a shard pack post-update, try farming shards for 24hrs straight (w/o a pack) and then tell me if you get more (or even the same) # of shards as you were "normally" getting prior to this BS update.

    If you haven't actually tried farming for atleast 12hrs post-update, than everything you've said is invalid. Show everyone some courtesy and actually try things out before coming in here with unproven theories based on "factual data" provided by the very people who screwed up. This ain't rocket science.

  • EcchiKun LV.8 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 04:29 PM

    percentage is percentage 1.4% chance to drop L/D shard is very low so you not getting anything out of 100 runs is bad luck not a scummy practice and just because your luck is bad doesn't mean the rates are wrong but to balance that they have pity meter for shard farming

    double shard packs works same as before it doubles the shards acquired it used to give you 2 shards before when acquiring a shard and it does same now there is no change

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 04:58 PM

    EcchiKun  So before this update, I used to reliably get around 2-4 L/D shard drops in 150 runs and at seldom times, less than minimum.

    Post-update, I did a test where I farmed for half a day doing a total of 1,350 runs. Guess what? Not a single shard drop. I guess you could chuck it up to luck the first time but I did the same cycle the next day and the day after that.

    Same results. In fact, I havent gotten a single L/D shard ever since the update was implemented and all I ever do is farm L/D shards day in and day out. And those shards I got from bonus rewards? Waaaay less than what I was getting before.

    I thought the very concept of adding a pity system was to increase the amount of shards a player was already getting? Certainly doesn't make a whole lot of sense that I'm getting less instead, eh?

    Am certainly not the only one as you might very well have noticed - and I personally know of other users who work at home and have done more runs than myself yet are getting zilch in terms of shard drops.

    Those percentages up there don't mean squat as far as I'm concerned.

  • LLCoolJ LV.5 Lurker Oct 3, 2019, 08:16 PM

    YoshioHaruki  The thing is you have to look at those %# in a different way. Before u had a 1.4% chance to drop a shard after every run. So u had 150 times 1.4% chance to drop a shard. Now u have 150 times 0.4% chance to drop a shard... in those low % numbers 1% difference CAN be HUGE! And the safe shards don't make up for this difference.So I have to disagree with Asian saying it should be the same... on paper yes it should be but in practice it's not. It's a lot worse actually.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 10:19 PM

    YoshioHaruki  I mean if you want to ignore basic statistics that is fine... but in order to get devs to change something you gotta make your point more valid other than "I get less shards from drops"... which is MEANT to happen because the rate is 0.4%. And if you read previous dev notes, they never said anything about increasing rates at all, only changing how it is calculated.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 4, 2019, 02:03 AM

    AsianLife  Since you seem to trust your unproven theories more than real-life statistics, how do you explain getting zero shard drops after 1,350 runs instead of the theorized 2.2 shard drops that a player can apparently get (according to that BS on the table above) after 550 runs? And if you read half of what I actually wrote, you'll see that I gave more insight to this issue than simply saying "I get less shards from drops". Unlike you, I trust actual experience over mere speculation.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 4, 2019, 03:03 AM

    YoshioHaruki  Have you considered the sample size? For a chance of 0.4% 1350 runs is not nearly enough to get accurate data. I am not speculating anything other than the fact that they framed the way we get guaranteed shards vs dropped shards badly. My original suggestion as I said earlier was to make luck-based shards more of a presence that guaranteed shards. Although the current system is very reliable, it may seem at times to be less rewarding, and thus less satisfying. The original system still had its flaws, because one day you could hit the lottery and on others you got nada. The fact that you got 0 dropped shards from 1350 does not prove anything. You also misunderstood the point of this shard update. This was NOT to BUFF rates. It was to provide more reliable rewards. If you feel like the rates are too low, instead of blaming it on way shards are dropped, blame it on the overall rates.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 4, 2019, 04:03 AM

    AsianLife  You realize that 1,350 was just from an initial 12hr test post-update right? The full sample size I'm basing off of consists of:
    - 1,350 runs (directly after the update)
    - 1,800+ runs (the next day)
    - 2,600+ runs (the day after to present day)

    Not a single shard. Even at the time of writing, I have not gotten a single shard drop ever since this update was implemented.

    Nobody really expected to see a buff but just looking at the results, this was quite literally the opposite of a buff and not near as neutral as you claim.

  • EcchiKun LV.8 Nomad Oct 4, 2019, 04:53 AM

    YoshioHaruki  dude that's not how statistics and drop table work just because you didn't get something doesn't mean it's not there it just means your luck is bad
    0.4% chance is very very low similar situation is in azur lane where akagi can be farmed from a stage but have 0.3% drop rate only some people have gotten her in one day and some have gotten her in a few days or a week while for others they farmed her for months

    to understand this new system you gotta understand chances are now much lower but now not everything is dependent on luck you atleast have a pity meter where you are guaranteed to get a shard after runs

    it all depends on perspective on how you wanna look at it maybe your luck was good and you got shards much easily before so this system is bad for you and some others but for most it was barely seeing any shard drop from L/D tiles so for them this change is a life saver and now your luck is bad but you still have the pity meter for guaranteed shard

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 4, 2019, 05:22 AM

    EcchiKun  Am curious to know what you think row 3, column 2 of the table above means. If my understanding is correct, it basically means that on average, a player can get a raw value of 2.2 shards for every 550 runs (and this of course excludes the # of guaranteed shards as shown on a different section of that table).

    My daily number of runs average at 1k+ (bare minimum) in a single day and I've been doing the same routine for a good 3 plus days now.

    Based on all this, can you elaborate on how you think I should be okay with not getting a SINGLE L/D shard drop after completing almost 6,000 runs?

  • gamer526069070 LV.2 Lurker Oct 4, 2019, 10:18 AM

    YoshioHaruki  this is driving me nuts. people are not testing this themselves but assuming the given data is correct (test it - it is not). i too have now seen 1 single fire 5* shard on 3 days of farming. there is something broken between the supposed rates and the actual rates. SOMETHING IS BROKEN. this has notjing to do with understanding statistics. if shards do not drop, ever, that would be a bug. THIS IS A BUG. it needs to be fixed. so stop defending the devs and start realizing there is a bug. if the devs say not a bug...then pitchfork em.

  • gamer174611719 LV.3 Lurker Oct 3, 2019, 04:16 PM

    Let me propose a simple solution. How about for an on and off switch of guaranteed shard drop and regular drop rate? Everyone would decide what they prefer therefore everyone happy. I personally have WAY better results before the guaranteed drop update.

  • gamer163456081 LV.2 Lurker Oct 4, 2019, 09:10 AM

    This poll is seemed too cunning .. the guaranteed drops should NOT be effected by RATES rather it should be applied based on number of RUNS.. the dropping of the actual shard should stay as 1.4 hence the update would have been played out as intended ..

  • Templr LV.2 Lurker Oct 6, 2019, 09:49 AM

    the current system is far worse than what it was before 3.7. guaranteed shards were NEVER supposed to be the main method of shard farming but act as a BONUS to drop shard farming. The only real advantage to the current shard farming system is that its more consistent buts it. you will never get lucky and you'll waste way more valor than before.

    For those who voted for guaranteed shards and are also all in one pack owners, I hope you're aware that you're getting scammed due to now losing a huge feature which is 2x shards when you get a drop shard, but with how the current system goes, you'll never get a drop shard which means you won't get doubled shards.

    This Change doesn't help anyone, free to play or repeat pack owners and whoever thinks so needs to seriously reevaluate themselves

  • DevTeam Leo LV.5 GameManager Oct 8, 2019, 07:51 PM

    misunderstood.

    please read dev note.

    Question: If I purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, will the guaranteed Shard Reward also double?

    Answer: Yes, it will. If you purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, the [Shard Reward] count will be doubled. For example, with Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack, Heirs will receive 200 Shard Reward count instead of 100 Shard Reward count when Heirs clear 100 stages. Therefore, Heirs will receive 10 servant shards for stages that give shard reward for every 20 stages(Early stages of Fire/Water/Forest Sanctuary). Those who didn't purchase Double Shard Pack or All in One Pack will receive 100 Shard Reward count for 100 stages cleared, receiving 5 servant shards.

  • Azrael DC LV.2 Lurker Oct 6, 2019, 09:13 PM

    Just wanted to give my 2 cents to it.
    Last month using aio pack I was farming 400 dark xita shards.
    1300 runs for around 20 shards in average (below average) when I should have gotten around 36.

    This month without it I was farming up to 450 (so only 50). Pre 3.7
    Average was 14 per 1300 runs. (still below average).

    Now I farmed again 1300 runs after the update.
    2 drops and rest guaranteed. That brings me to 16 guaranteed and 2 drops.
    So all in all a net profit for my averages. But those rates of 1.4% pre 3.7 and. 4% post are nothing but dreams. I should have double the dropped rates.

    Please devs. Don't remove the option to farm LDs for us. Currently fusing is just the better option, because you always get something out of it. I fused 11 LD5 since 2 month after fuse was released.
    And all the unwanted I can still create buns or select LD5 summon.

    What's the point of ld shard farming when it takes me a month, due to weird rates.
    32000 runs is what 1 ld shard farming might take.

  • gamer174611719 LV.3 Lurker Oct 3, 2019, 11:46 AM

    With the double shards pack, the guaranteed shards dropped in the dark sanctuary at dark Lucien stage (1 for every 60 runs) aren’t doubled but the remaining 0.4% do. In short, I still get 1 shard for every 60 runs instead of 2 with the pack. Can anyone address it? Thx

  • EcchiKun LV.8 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 04:41 PM

    idk how people talking about getting 10 shards from 100 runs were doing it but i've been farming a lot of lv77 dark lucien tile and have never seen a single shard drop in hundreds of runs so i personally like this change as i can atleast guarantee myself 1 shard every 100 runs
    tho for others who are complaining idk maybe lowering the pity meter might make them happy as well
    tho this is the first time i'm hearing people saying they used to get 10-15 shards from 100 runs and now they get nothing while everytime i've asked before the only replies i got were they rarely see a shard drop so this change is definitely going to make them happy and for those who were getting 15 shards per 100 runs maybe you should have voiced your opinion before and read the patch notes and then devs might have done something about it they released notes days ago and said clearly they will lower drop rates but nobody said anything

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 3, 2019, 05:14 PM

    10 shards in 100 runs? With a shard pack, that doesn't sound impossible although most often than not, 8 L/D shards would be the usual max amount you'd get after 100+ runs (with a shard pack ofc, 4 shards if without). Not trying to antagonize your opinion btw but I for one messaged them about this and have not gotten a response to date. I guess this whole poll thing is meant to be their response though. Hoping for the best but certainly lowering the expectation bar closer to the ground.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 3, 2019, 10:29 PM

    No one gets 10 shards in 100 in LD tile... pack or not. Max is like 4 or maybe 6 with LD tile (with shard pack) I have farmed 60k+ valor in an LD tile and I get a pretty solid 1-2 shards per 100 (before shard update). After update I get 1 shard from guaranteed every 60, so it is like 1.6 shards per 100 not including dropped shards.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 4, 2019, 02:13 AM

    For someone who relies too much on theory, you aren't exactly the most accurate source of info. Prior to the update, there were actual instances of me getting 12 dark shards in 150 runs w/ a double shard pack so your argument is simply asinine.

  • AsianLife LV.7 Nomad Oct 4, 2019, 03:06 AM

    And what are the chances of that happenning? Quite low. Did you ever think about all the times you got a whopping 0 shards from 150 runs? Did you do the calculations and averaged them out? Basing your claim on the last few significant instances that you remember is a clear availability bias.

  • YoshioHaruki LV.22 Game Critic Oct 4, 2019, 03:39 AM

    The chances of getting 12 shards from 150 runs are pretty low, yes. But that's irrelevant - I was simply sharing a fact to disprove your statement ("No one gets 10 shards in 100 in LD tile") that insinuates this occurence to be impossible.

  • MysticHLE LV.5 Lurker Oct 5, 2019, 04:43 PM

    The probability of you teleporting to any space and point in time is also non-zero by your argument - but it's probably not very relevant, just like your single anecdotal sample.

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